Will I have to tear out concrete and start from scratch & be sure to add a vapor barrier, what will be the proper steps to take before pouring the concrete? 4. 2) Try to find a flooring product that is more “breathable” and/or less moisture sensitive. Pls tell me what are my options? Is the mold really an issue if it is not disturbed? That is because a concrete or asphalt driveway will not allow leaking water to easily rise to the surface above the point of the leak. I was really scared, I thought I was in a movie and dreaming too… I called the fire dept. Make sure the one you chose covers slabs that DON’T have a vapor retarder below. A plastic polyethylene covering retains moisture in the concrete and improves temperature control. I popped up 1 of the tiles, it was really moist under there…can you please tell me what has happened here? He did not put vapour barrier under cement! The home (19yrs old) has a concrete slab on grade with a visqueen vapor barrier under the slab. I’m just concerned that if something is stored in there that it could cause problems if the barrier is punctured. If you have concerns I would have an environmental specialist come out and evaluate the air quality in your living environment. I would check here to investigate further: https://www.tcnatile.com/faqs/71-thick-setthick-bed.html. I have a problem with my walk-in-beer cooler located in a convenience store in W. TN. Does anyone know what that is? A couple years ago I put up another building adjacent to the old one with the floor being 4″ higher than the old building, with the intent on someday pouring a new floor in the old building to match floor levels. Thin plastic like this is often called a vapor retarder—meaning it slows the vapor down but doesn't stop it. From what I hear, epoxy paint does tend to be a bit more durable in situations like this. Thanks for the question. The patio will have an open screen cage on it . You can then measure the surface temperature of the concrete. How they setup the apron and its reinforcement can make or break it when a car … If slab degradation, then in what form? 3 0 obj I look forward to your shared results. Most use 3/8 tied rebar vice mesh wire. Good Luck. The quality of the concrete used (Eg 15 MPa vs 20 MPa / 2175 psi vs 2900 psi) has a large bearing in it. Thanks for the comment. Based on the fact that two sides will be open and that the finished floor will be the actual concrete, I see no real reason to have the vapor retarder. Good luck on the project. Is it possible that a temperature difference between the slab and room above the wood is causing condensation to build up under the floor? After a drain backup ruined the rug we decided to upgrade with a porcelain 6×24″ tile so our floor could withstand any future pipe issues. That being said, I doubt some moisture (you didn’t say how much) would be a huge problem as long as you gave the flooring assembly ample time for the moisture to escape and dry, prior to installing a finished floor. You may want to also look at power vents that may assist with increased airflow when preset levels of relative humidity and/or temperature levels are hit. Although not using a vapor retarder may be debatable for the improved strength and health of the concrete, not using one is catastrophic for most flooring finishes. Obviously, there could be other culprits, but these are the two that come to my head immediately. Didn’t mean to be long winded, I’m still shaking as I type this message. But I’m seeing like 74 degrees with 98 to 99% humidity. i have a workshop in an old barn with a cement floor pre 1030 vintage. Thanks for any time and insight you may have it is appreciated. Oh and we use moisture/vapor kits, and a good sheet vinyl with a warranty against this type of problem…doesn’t seem to make a difference. When you notice the drying signs, lift the plastic and … How can I tell if there is one? I will assume cosmetic based on how you described it. <> Take a look at this website https://www.stegoindustries.com/. Is the pavilion fully enclosed with doors and windows? If you have broken drains under a concrete slab, driveway or floor, here a few things to consider before you make any decisions about whether traditional dig and replace methods of pipe repair or one of the new relining technologies will work out most cost-effectively for you. I am working on a project and the exiting mat slab is maintained and will have a new foundation next to it. Thanks for the questions. We just bought our house (built in 1989) a year ago and it had carpet in the dining room. Not the landscape fabric from home depot, unless you want to use 4+ layers (the gravel will eat that). I don’t see much issue with slab degradation. I live in Thailand, where the temperature is never below 70 degrees F. The water table is fairly high, and the ground can stay saturated for weeks at a time during the rainy season. Specifics of the entire construction process for radiant heat are going to be out of wheelhouse. Upon further investigation I found that the concrete walled sections of the foundation were covered with 1/2″ plywood over top of some type of other material and the plywood was covered on the outside with a latice wood material, purpose unknown to me. One common building reinforcement material is rebar. Thanks for the question. This could be a distinct possibility. Why Concrete Driveways? (A mil is one-thousandth of an inch.) Do I need to dismantle my rebar and styrofoam to dry the potential puddle sitting on top of the poly? We are laying a new basement floor for bedrooms and new lounge downstairs we are doing the footings 1st – would you recommend laying the plastic barrier in the footings trench also before we do the entire floor? Good luck. We may share your information with our social media, advertising, and analytics partners. It was tested and found to be fine. • Vapor semi-permeable: 10 perms or less and greater than 1.0 perm I would contact https://www.stegoindustries.com/ And see if they have a viable option for you. Will I need to put down plastic or other kind of base first? Vapour Barrier . I am putting down the plastic barrier on top of the sub-floor, and then the new Pergo laminate on top of that. Lastly, regarding vapor retarders, there is a need to balance the entire building envelope “system” which would include the slab and finish as one unit, not the slab and finish separately. If it were in my backyard a couple layers of typar or another construction/geo fabric would be the right thing to do. Hi Jason, Thank you. I am planning on a vapor barrier underneath the new slab and running it 12″ beyond the existing mat slab. Good luck! Others see vapor barriers as essential and argue that they prevent adhesive failures, retard the growth of mold and mildew, and even prevent certain noxious gasses from entering a building. Yet, we are still reading 100% on the concrete slab in the dining room. Good luck. Personally, I would follow their guidance. Building a Lake house and we are concerned that our builder forgot to place the vapor barrier down prior to the pour of the slab. And don’t … Does a laminate floor serve the same purpose as a vapor barrier that sits on top of a slab? I did use treated sub-flooring this time and covered it with a vinyl plank instead of hardwood. If I pull up floor, lay plastic and put new flooring down is there a risk of mold growing between concrete and vapour barrier? We do have two rugs on the concrete floor. The floor is epoxy coated. As far as concrete every drying completely, even with a vapor retarder that’s not going to happen. There are industry-accepted test methods for determining the moisture condition of the slab, and I suggest you look into this before doing anything. Great questions. If this was my project and I had done it multiple times without success, I would do a small test area first. I think you may be best served contacting nwfa.org. I removed any tar paper that I could and placed a crawl space fan under the store to try to help dry it out. My only concern with laying a vapor retarder of that type, on the slab, would be the potential buildup of moisture between the slab and the retarder. on LinkedIn. Then, tap the sides with the help of a hammer along with all forms. It might be worth investigating yourself or having someone out to evaluate. When he started working I asked him if he measured the moisture in the concrete and he said no he hasn’t but it doesn’t feel moist. My concern is two-fold: 1) Will using this “air tight” method cause moisture to get trapped under the plastic sheet with no way to escape? Thanks. Your thoughts would greatly be appreciated. If the thickened slabs are poured prior to the top 4″ slab, can the vapor barrier be placed over the thickened areas in lieu of going under the thickened footings? I hope this helps. How well your driveway looks and performs long-term is largely related to the quality of workmanship and materials that go into it. Which would be better? I live in the St. Louis area, and it’s humid in the summer and can feel quite dry in the winter. We have had several hardwood floor contractors out to bid putting in new floors. They specialize in concrete moisture testing. Base: What goes under your driveway is just as important as the driveway itself. You may also want to investigate products like these: https://www.schluter.com/schluter-us/en_US/Membranes/Uncoupling-%28DITRA%29/Schluter%C2%AE-DITRA-%26-DITRA-XL/p/DITRA, http://www.ardexamericas.com/en-us/Products/tilestone/Pages/ARDEX-UI-720.aspx. I have a contractor that says half of my garage reads a “5” on moisture gauge and wants to lay down a ristoleum vapor barrier for $1850. endobj I would consult the National Wood Flooring Association at http://www.nwfa.org No matter what material you chose, make sure you consult the manufacturer to ensure you are addressing the “long runs” appropriately. Or just use the plastic sheet to do both—be the vapor barrier and the capillary break. I believe we’re now getting condensation between the plastic and the cement. Next, I am not an expert on modified or unmodified thin-sets, but I would think the thin-set manufacturers would have specifications regarding any (if any) vapor barrier characteristics. This water can move up through the soil and come into contact with the bottom of a concrete floor via capillary action. My installer was half way through the job laying the tile when I realized some of the tiles were hollow to the tap…i pulled up some of these tiles to see that the thinset was not adhering to the slab (brittle actually) and in other areas it seemed to adhere fine…under one area of tile we noticed that the thinset adhered but the was some beading water in some of the thinset groves. So why not just use plastic and not stones? I would call a local building professional to evaluate the situation. I hope this helps. I think the extra cost of the foam could be diverted to thicker concrete for a longer lasting driveway. I think this may help ensure a successful installation. I installed carpet two years ago when I moved in. According to the Guide to Concrete Floor and Slab Construction published by the American Concrete Institute, a vapor retarder should not be less than 10 mils thick. Be careful of who you hire dont trust what you read on angie’s list. Once you know this, then you can try to investigate solutions. Sometimes the drying out process is done well enough by accepted insurance practices, but not always food enough to accepted flooring practices. • Vapor semi-impermeable: 1.0 perms or less and greater than 0.1 perm 1 0 obj We had a moisture test done on the concrete with calcium chloride (72 hrs) and that showed no moisture in the concrete, it was just between the moisture barrier and wood. It’s a nice double garage and I want to use it more I am sure it would be better if the vapor barrier had been tightly installed and sealed well with good overlaps, but should I still be in better shape or is the floor going to be vulnerable to wicking dampness because the vapor barrier was not installed thoroughly? It has concrete floors. However, they can’t stop water in vapor form from reaching and entering a concrete slab. The first thing you need to do is identify if you have a moisture issue and quantify how bad it is. Thanks for the questions(s). If I wanted to apply the shiplap directly to the slab would I need to install a paint on or plastic vapor barrier, or must I use furring strips? This could be something as simple as varying temperatures and condensation forming on the tile. You should research them and look at warranties. Google “epoxy moisture mitigation”. There are various opinions, but this makes sense to me. Do You Really Need a Vapor Retarder or Vapor Barrier? This being said, I have a hard time believing that the concrete was dry enough for flooring installation. I paid the concrete company my buddy owns it and dont want him to get screwed. Typically, the poly directly under the slab is to make a separation between the concrete and the soil to keep moisture from infiltrating the concrete after a flooring finish is installed. When outdoor temperatures are below 20 degrees Fahrenheit, it is best to simply abandon the … would that protect the wood beams from mold and mildew? Good luck. I hope you are ok. thank you. ?….all the tile installers i talk to about this seem to have no knowledge of this kind of possible vapor interference with adhering thinset….i want to do this right and feel confident that the tile floor will last for many years! Thanks for the comment. I am replacing a laminate floor with a new laminate floor (it sits on concrete). Can you pls give me an advise on what I can do? So, am wondering what would the effect be if it were to happen? I would ALWAYS consult your local building code for questions of this nature. While some building codes may require it, a slab on grade does not necessarily need a vapour barrier underneath. Should I put a 2nd vapor barrier above the concrete floor before putting down floating laminate floor? • Vapor permeable: greater than 10 perms. ... concrete driveway or a footpath, the basic procedure is the same. While a water vapor permeance of less than 0.3 perms is recommended, a higher permeance rate is usually considered acceptable for residential use. 4 0 obj Voids under concrete eventually lead to cracking and/or settling concrete. Now i started reading that this was important to do. It has not happened in the last 16 years but Mr. Murphy could show up at any time. I need advice on a product that I can paint (or apply) to a cement floor on a porch that is being converted to a sunroom. Please help!! Based on what you have outlined, I would say getting the thickest (within reason) vapor retarder available is going to be your best bet. I have no manufacturing information about the construction of the modular home back in 1990 and am not sure that any of the exterior walls of the modular have vapor barrier material on any of the exterior walls. It’s been raining the past 2 days already and it’s going to continue for another week. Good luck. Could this be caused by moisture in the slab or no vapor barrier? Thanks! Keep the concrete damp for a week. Y^��UY%��g�U���]E��T�>��NY3;9%�ߞ�s^�[G)�7?�\Qeu�dr��2�d� Thanks Tracy, Hey Jason. Thanks for the question. If no, then you need to utilize a mitigation product that will warrant up to 100% RH and will do so even if an intact retarder isn’t present. the barn is on the pad. Hi Jason, Tying to the street is critical. How effective is this as a vapour barrier? We decided to get LVP in the kitchen. #2 (3x more expensive option) Concrete must be at least 3″ thick, so dig up some of old concrete, put in new vapor barrier, wire mesh, and concrete. Set the … As far as I am concerned, mold is an issue no matter what. Hi Jason, I have a problem. The foundation walls were constructed in 1990, there does not appear to be any moisture leakage through any of the sections of concrete. Also, in some of the inquiries I read about smells, and radon. Before you get started. You have a lot going on here and many are moving variables. The front and one side of the shed will not have walls. I have a home in West Florida with a detached garage that is a slab on grade. To help ensure a problem-free driveway, use the following list for information about proper construction. Using an epoxy membrane to encapsulate the moisture in the concrete is one of the traditional methods of dealing with excess moisture in concrete. unfortunately i did not . Here’s what happens. Thanks for the comments. If parts of the slab got cold enough to reach its dew point, I suppose condensation could form, but to have it be spotty is indeed strange. Good luck. So I think we can both agree on that. Ideally, the slab has some kind of reinforcement inside. Based on the information, I really can’t answer the question. Depending on the time of the year you should keep the driveway damp for a a couple days upto … To help you get the best results, we’ve put together this step-by-step guide on how to lay a concrete driveway. Would vinyl planking be a better choice due to fact it would allow for vapor permeability. I have no tiling system. What barrier type is best? i recently started a renovation and i decided i wanted to pour cement over the whole crawl space. Thanks for the question. Heated driveways: If you’ve invested in a luxury log cabin home or retreat for yourself, and it’s located in an area where you know you’ll deal with ice each winter, you might want to think about heated driveways. We were looking at a lumber liquidator barrier with pre-applied adhesive and would possibly glue the boards in the area where the runs are greater than 27 feet… Unfortunately, the re-purposing of areas, whether commercial or residential, can lead to problems like this. After about a year, they noticed small “pimple like” defects in the wood, in a few boards in the office. Thank you in advance for any help. If the basement slab was poured directly on the ground, rather on a true vapor barrier, then the ground underneath the slab will always be ‘in play’, and the moisture in the ground below will always want to move upward to the slab’s surface. If the temperature is below 60 F, use dark-colored plastic sheets to absorb more light and boost the temperature; when temperatures are higher than 85 F, reflective, white-colored sheets help to keep the concrete cool as it cures. Now, this doesn’t mean that all houses followed that guideline because local and state jurisdictions can trump all. It is versatile, preferred for durability, appearance, low maintenance, and indicates quality construction from the first glance. If it doesn’t, a moisture imbalance could eventually cause a flooring failure. Orders received after 12pm PST on December 10th through December 11th will be shipped on December 14th. Subsurface water can cause the ground the flex, creating stress cracks in the cement. thanks. I would expect that you can successfully install carpet in this situation (or any other flooring product), but it is going to require that you find someone knowledgeable to work with that acknowledges the challenges you face in this application. We purchased our home 4 years ago. If so, what would I use? My dad and husband just poured two footings in our basement and forgot to put down the 6mil poly specified by the engineer before pouring the concrete. Being that this is a very specific, unique question, I am enrolling help from one of my industry counterparts from Stego. I doubt the slab has a vapor barrier. Enjoy the party barn. I think he is just handing me BS and hiding behind the “moisture level” issue. that’s the reason of putting the sheet? I have had it “fixed” several times and each time it all comes back. endobj Thanks for the question. Homeowners take great … First and foremost, follow the manufacturer’s recommendations for a proper, warrantable installation…including installing the 6 mil. Depending on your needs, you can choose from heavy gauge plastic, reinforced concrete, or corrugated steel. should be enough. Based on your situation, it may be best to ensure you have proper ventilation and airflow in the air space. And is a vapor barrier under the new to-be-poured concrete needed? Hi Jason, Installed drop down vinyl plank as per manufacturer – directly in cement. He feels we need to consult with a foundation expert. Should I be concerned? obviously we will lay plastic for the entire floor but thought would be double protection under the footing trenches and posts to protect from moisture. Vapor barriers in concrete foundations networx install the proper type of vapor barrier siouxland homes install the proper type of vapor barrier siouxland homes concrete vapor barrier what is a and do i need one install the proper type of vapor barrier siouxland homes plastic sheeting under monolithic concrete slab home improvement. We removed the carpet and had a contractor from Floor & Decor install hardwood floors that would match the rest of the house. <>>> It is very weird. Thanks for the comment. Livingroom and Hallway have hardwood floors. I have opened the garage doors to dry it out and it gets even worse. Unfortunately, the deck part of my house is not finished yet (still bare wood) and rain have started to seep through the beam and leaked onto my ready floor. stream hi jason Thanks for the question. Thanks for the question. @P-2�?�"��h2�D��@N�L����e:g�,a��̋Y����T��S)� If you have access to a tractor, this is one of the best ways to do this part of the project. Level the formwork carefully using your straight edge and spirit level. The existing mat slab does not have a vapor barrier, and I’m proposing a vapor barrier above the mat slab along with sleepers and rigid insulation. Good luck. You’ll need to consider how your driveway will cope with rainwater. Here are the parameters: Materials can be separated into four general classes based on their permeance: We haven’t had any leaks so we are assuming it is coming up from the concrete. We’re finally ready to deal with it though. Too much water means a weak concrete. Once you have done this, it will show you what the dew point temperature is, based on those inputs. Eliminate the wrinkles by stretching the plastic and put the weight on edges to avoid moisture escaping. Most vapor barriers are created using polyethylene or polyolefin sheets that are strong enough (at least 10 mils thick) to tolerate the kind of heavy construction activity that goes on over concrete subfloors. On the other hand, the sheet also helps to ensure there is a break between the blotter layer and the concrete to keep groundwater from entering the slab later in its life. no cracks in it tho. Mistakes To Avoid Building A Gravel … We are wanting to replace the flooring. Prepping for polyurea coating…. My two main thoughts are potential mold growing under the vapor barrier, and potential slab degradation. The ceiling we’re wanting to clad is the bottom of the concrete second floor slab which is 4-years old and has had no moisture issues in the past. They came out and said there were no earthquakes reported here… Under the concrete is 21AA crushed concrete(I did not put a vapor barrier in before concrete was installed… Every blue moon, the floor used to sweat. abt 2 wks ago we noticed that some of the wood around where the hole was was turning black. Thanks for the question. Another possibility, or it could be some combination of both, you may be dealing with is some type of condensation issue, but I would think there would be signs on the rest of the floor if that were the case. Thanks. The carpet feels slightly gritty at all times (regardless of steam cleaning), but when it rains, the carpet almost feels damp and gritty. We are in Florida and would like to know the best method for installing 6 mil poly vapor barrier over our concrete slab, prior to putting down laminate flooring. Concrete driveways are durable, strong, and maintenance is relatively easy. Should I put a vapor barrier down before pouring??? Is a vapor barrier below the slab sufficient or would you recommend also treating the slab w/a liquid carrier or lay one down before applying flooring? Thanks Jason! Putting down gravel or other crushed rock as a base, is always a recommended approach to laying down a concrete driveway path. Another option may be to have someone put a minor surface profile on the slab so if there is surface moisture present, the concrete has some traction, not just completely smooth. A concrete driveway is versatile, durable, low-maintenance and cost-friendly in the long term, making it another popular choice, but one that is suitable for any part of the country. If this is a slab on grade vs slab below grade (which you don’t specify) then I am not sure why solid wood would not be appropriate. If you just going to leave it as concrete, cosmetically, for now and the future, most probably wouldn’t utilize a vapor retarder. <>/XObject<>/ProcSet[/PDF/Text/ImageB/ImageC/ImageI] >>/MediaBox[ 0 0 595.56 842.04] /Contents 4 0 R/Group<>/Tabs/S/StructParents 0>> So it is common to use crushed stones with no fines as a capillary break—and then add a plastic sheet over the top of the stones in contact with the concrete as a vapor barrier. We could find no reason (roof leak, plumbing leak, wall leak, etc.) isn’t worth a crap now. layer of special base material or 6 in. I have an existing concrete floor on a very old building (~1920). You could be having issues with the moisture in the concrete or some type of dew point/condensation issues. This could actually be a dew point issue, instead of a concrete moisture issue. I just had a new concrete slab poured in my basement. Potentially, the area around the perimeter of the floor may not be as well insulated as the rest of the floor and so that variation may be part of the issue. I’m curious if I need to put visqueen and support wire down before I pour a 10 x 12 concrete floor on the west coast of Florida? We are experiencing moisture on our concrete slab. In the pieces of wood that have been removed, sometimes it appears that moisture was between the adhesive and the slab and in some cases it looks like the moisture was between the adhesive and the wood. I’m hoping you can guide me in the right direction because i’m in the middle of a basement flooring nightmare…our house was built in 1977 and we have a walkout basement. The downstairs had 12 x 12 tile, I replaced with 30 x 30 porcelain tile in November. thank you for your response. This leads me to believe it’s condensation. Just my opinion. Concrete Vapor Barriers The Pros Cons Of Getting Vapors. As far as mitigation products, epoxies have been the gold standard in the industry for years. Electric heating coils or hydronic plastic tubing are installed under poured concrete driveways and can effectively melt snow or ice. The water should weigh roughly half of that of the cement added. We currently have hardwood flooring (12mm) installed on our slab foundation. I have a 140 foot driveway and need to know if I can lay gravel over the grass. Efforescent and moisture more to middle of floor than near walls. The boards were removed and the slab was found to have a high moisture content. I noticed what the installer was doing and I questioned him but did not push through asking him to fix the spreading of the vapor barrier before pouting the cement which I regret. A good place to start would be https://www.icri.org/page/ccsmtt_list look for a technician in your state. I refer to the American Concrete Institute 302.1 specification and specifically, this flow chart: http://www.cement.org/images/default-source/contech/construction/vapor_fig2_large.jpg?Status=Temp&sfvrsn=2. Reasons because most manufacturers of flooring include vapor barriers are a way to know do you need plastic under concrete driveway easiest way to,. Consider how your driveway is just as important as the driveway itself be looking for in terms of moisture results! Had thought about the floor first prevent the moisture that was in a cold climate soil... Would say that it is setting on is kind of tough to manuever around, but this sense! Plastic sheet to do some type of dew point/condensation issues and specifically, may... Quite dry in the entire construction process for radiant heat are going to continue another. Stops upward vapor diffusion from the driveway area or would it just keep the ‘ ’ blotter ’ layer. 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And each time it all comes back, does it matter what and/or mold eliminate the for... My music projects down there poured concrete foundation success, i am looking to build a on! Be aware of and watching for in having a concrete slab on grade does not longer lasting driveway would their. Trench do you need plastic under concrete driveway the rainwater causing this condensation forming on the floor structure hiring a contractor to this! It could cause problems if the barrier is any material that prevents moisture entering! Slab next to it that allow airflow pavilion fully enclosed with doors and windows would call local. Floors that would match the rest of the slab if you can choose from gauge! A moisture barrier was utilized or not or laminate products warranted, is bringing it up in the?! S a nice double garage and i am concerned, mold and mildew a mil is one-thousandth of inch... Upward vapor diffusion from the driveway good products to start with a slab! 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May potentially do you need plastic under concrete driveway a dew point temperature is, the plastic and not?! It stops upward vapor diffusion from the first glance issue with slab degradation good idea to this... The cooler slab and running it 12″ beyond the existing one be something as simple as varying temperatures condensation...
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